responsible for killing lots of thousands of birds every year, including, unfortunately, many of these eagles. and it is -- anyway, it is a terrible thing. turning now to our failing correctional system, our next guest to is here, i think, two weeks ago when we for started talking to about a system of justice that is mocking the very idea of just in proportion of punishment. your content -- here to continue our conversation about what has happened to the fundamental credo of let the punishment fit the crime is a professor of criminal law at the new york law school and the author of the important book, the death the punishment. good to have you back with us. >> thank you. lou: you have spent how many hours, days. i mean, it is incredible. and to see that some of the facilities that are available to our prisoners, if we could start to see some of the video, the places, i mean, running shoes, president obama that advertises the world's largest prison rodeo. i mean, what in the world has become of our prison system? >> it is an instrument for justice. it may not be -- i think they're inappropriat